Neil Afram's comments
Excellent document and well presented with illustrations. It can be easily followed by the majority of system contractors and specifiers.
Question is how to get it to a one-man-band system installer who is installing a 1-6 kW a day to help him follow the recommendations? how to control it? there are millions of small splits from being a danger to the installer or the end-user? especially when flammable is forced down their throat ;) Do we think that manufacturers ought to included as part of the installation manual? recommend it as part of their training?
One thing I didn't see in the document is loud danger labeling of equipment? perhaps the HSE or advertising standards can help? we all have to chip in to make it work and safe!!!. Neil Afram
Good news and trust there are more manufacturers opt for this safe alternative. As Global Fact states " There is more to consider than GWP" here I am talking about SAFETY in the AC split market where there are more than 65m sold worldwide, managed and installed by very small (one-man band, probably 80% of sales), yes qualified engineers, installed anywhere, any application, most refrigerant release is at installation (be it grames) but flammable ?. to expect engineers to take the blame when there is no choice (yes no choice! as some manufacturers decided in Europe and especially in the UK decided to stop R410A some 5 years ahead of F-Gas bans) ? no guidelines or safety regulations ?
This request is on the assumption that whatever refrigerant to replacing the Hi GWP needs to be in line with HSE guidelines as I believe there is considerable confusion regarding replacement with LGWP. There are two types of LGWP refrigerants, Flammable (or mild ...) which there is no government or HSE guidelines (as in France for example) and NON-Flammable which already has guidelines and has over 20 years experience and over 45000 engineers certified. Need also to be clear regarding the incorrect claims regarding Flammable LGWP as being environmentally friendly! This is true IF it LEAKS, but nobody talks about if flammable leaks and causes fire it can kill and the fire causes more environmental damage than non-flammable?. We need to force the government to create more understanding, clarity and safe products than just listening to manufacturers of both Chemical and equipment. The F-Gas regulation is quite clear on the timing and exemptions.https://www.spaceair.co.uk/uploads/files/VRF/R32/Extract%20Ban%20on%20F-gas%20gov_uk.pdf
The AC & Refrigeration industry are users of refrigerants not consumers i.e. we don't take leaks likely!
Hi I assume this refers to 404A used in Refrigeration Extract from F-Gas bans:
HFCs with global warming potentials of more than 2,500 will be banned in all refrigeration systems. This will mainly affect the use of HFC 404A in commercial and industrial refrigeration systems.
I said it before "What is the difference between Brexit and Flammables?" and the answer is still the same, confusion!! Brexit will not burn or kill, but Flammables might!
The reason for recounting is a joke "was subject to a recount owing to Malaysian representatives having their vote rejected for failing to provide a required justification statement to support their decision"
Are we serious?
This is Safety at its lowest performance folks.
Don't we think, that who ever is playing the environmental game, have the decency, care or the balls to display a clear warning signs on their flammable products! AND make sure end users and operators aware that what they have in their home, office, restaurant, school, hospital, computer rooms, etc equipment ( refrigerator etc or AC unit) that have FLAMMABLE substances ? and clear visible signs not HIDDEN ? why not? Why doesn't the IEC doesn't insist that clear warning signs should be displayed ? Surely they know that there are extra risks?. Don't treat engineers and endusers as sheep!. There are more ways to skin a cat ;). Neil Afram
Looking at the air conditioning industry and the roller-coasting of R32 in the absence of clear understanding of what we are dealing with, misusing F-Gas regulations guidelines, a clear worldwide vision regarding LGWP alternatives are the real reason why IEC have rejected the proposal.
Everybody at the top is playing politics with the safety duties towards engineers and consumers, As an example, all manufacturers are pushing R32 (in Europe) using the ban parameters set by F-Gas as an excuse? The ban for less than 3 kg SYSTEM Charge SPLITS (not Multi splits) is from 1st January 2025 NOT 2020, that is 4/5 years from now? FETA & HSE confirmed that A2L is viewed as highly Flammable product and a safety assessment is required every time it's used. 46,000 or so engineers (in the UK) would need to be aware of the risk to their safety. Products should appropriately display warning signs on literature and technical manuals. Environmental claims must not compromise safety. Neil Afram
Excellent guidelines. Hopefully will be taken seriously by all sectors to ensure that the installer (blamed if it goes wrong !) gets the confidence and the security to execute his duties.
Manufacturers have the biggest responsibility to ensure their products display the correct precautions for their R32 products.
F-Gas regulation is the most important tool to protect the environment and safety and should not be used as a commercial political threat tool. Well done FETA / HSE & Institute of Refrigeration. Neil Afram
How can we stop illegal trade on something legal to use? need to use? no safety guidelines or building regulation for so-called LGWP?
Installers and end users are to blame?
Europe is being used (again) as a guinea pig testing grounds between South East Asia and the North Americas? while the rest of the world still uses HCFC22? and until 2030!!!!. We can handle the best of both worlds? Neil Afram
EU or anybody cannot have teeth for law enforcement ! when there are no bones to hold them. The reason for illegal actions is customers demand solution to there working problems while politicians dream! and manufacturers use their ignorance by changing refrigerants on the pretense of low GWP but not covering the safety and regulations or I should say the absence of safety & regulations!
If my understanding is right (I was part of the F-Gas regulation team when it was conceived) F-Gas Regulations has nothing to do with quota ?! it is to do with competency and qualification to handle A1 (circa 46000 engineers mainly AC), A2 (circa 3000? mainly Refrigeration) and A3 (circa1000? mainly refrigeration) to safely and environmentally handle refrigerant.
F-Gas has nothing to do with Europe or UK or any country. It is engineering guideline and standards for any person who touches a "Carnot cycle " refrigeration cycle where ever it exists.
It is a driving license for current vehicles that passed health & safety standards and country road standards !!. Neil Afram
The government should also ensure that meeting our international target is place as we are a signatory to Kigali Amendments to the Montreal Protocol. Ensure our Building Guidelines and Health & Safety procedures with Industry Certified training for any New A2L low GWP refrigerants are in place with all manufacturers taking responsibility rather than laying the blame on Installers or users if it goes wrong. We need a healthy responsible industry without politics and games. Neil Afram